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Hi guysI finally just pulled the trigger on the P900. Fastmikefree wrote:Hi guysI finally just pulled the trigger on the P900. I tend to agree with ANAYV.I don't think you (the OP) are seeing the effects of jpeg compression as, under good circumstances, the full 16MPs resolve quite well. Just be sure to set NR to NR- and keep ISO to 400 or lower. The sensor performs best at lowest ISO and, for anything except subjects with motion in the frame, VR is surprisingly capable of facilitating sharp images. Of course, nothing can help with less than ideal atmospheric conditions that also greatly affect outcomes with subjects at greater distances.
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(subjects that often tempt P900 users)Looking at some jpegs shot with my D800 (36MPs for anyone unfamiliar), they can be around 11-12MPs depending on subject matter so, again, I don't see anything abnormal about the P900's compression ratio and refer back to my earlier points about ISO and NR. Fastmikefree wrote:Hi guysI finally just pulled the trigger on the P900. Many thanks guys for your valuable input and splendid photos!I agree with you that the P900 is great. Before buying it, I had a look to the B700 but reviews were not as good. I have been waiting for a 'B900 or P910' for a year but since nothing happened I decided to go with the P900.I am not too sure on how you get some so small files on the D800 since mine generates 75MB Raw files and about half size Jpeg files.
But that is true I am always going for lowest compression.To be short, I still think P900 pics are over compressed. All pics look great when viewed at 60% or 80% max. After that, at 100%, we can see that hairs or other details are blurred when they should not with that type of sensor under good light conditions, at 100 iso and using a tripod.I did of course set the minimum iso and NR as well as Fine mode.
So, happy with the results but think that a simple fix by Nikon just by offering a reduced compression ration will improve pics the same way as moving from 'normal' to 'fine'.Anyway, will probably keep that one! Fastmikefree wrote:Many thanks guys for your valuable input and splendid photos!I agree with you that the P900 is great. Before buying it, I had a look to the B700 but reviews were not as good. I have been waiting for a 'B900 or P910' for a year but since nothing happened I decided to go with the P900.I am not too sure on how you get some so small files on the D800 since mine generates 75MB Raw files and about half size Jpeg files. But that is true I am always going for lowest compression.See page 436 of the D800 manual. It has a table that shows the different image quality options and the approximate file sizes they create. RAW file sizes can vary slightly in size since they each contain an embedded JPEG file, and JPEG file sizes vary with their scene content.
JPEG sizes are also given for L, M and S image sizes and for JPEG fine, normal and basic.Anyway, before checking the manual, you may be happy (or chagrined) to know that you chose the largest RAW file size. The table shows 74.4 MB for uncompressed 14-bit RAW files. There are 6 RAW options and the smallest (32.4 MB) is for lossless compressed 12-bit RAWs. 'After that, at 100%, we can see that hairs or other details are blurred when they should not with that type of sensor under good light conditions, at 100 iso and using a tripod.'
I think that is correct. Zooming in on the JPEGs there are signs of smearing that is not necessary. Bright lights and ISO 100 don't fix it.It used to be Sony cameras were always being criticized for watercolor like smearing on JPEGS,like on my HX9V. But that problem pretty much went away on cameras like my HX30V if one set noise reduction and sharpness to the lowest settings.Today with my P900 I took some shots in P mode, Picture Control, Standard.
Image sharpening, contrast and saturation set to lower values. It seemed to help, but not as much as I hoped it would.
(all fine mode, NR set to low)I hope to find some time the next few days to take some outdoor test shots. I was so windy today all the grass and tree branches were moving around too much to make for fair comparison shots. Just to be clear, my intent is not to put the P900 down!As I said I do love it! But as described in some reviews, I believe the quality of P900' photos can easily be improvedd by changing the JPEG compression ratio.As indicated in Nikon manual, Normal more is 1/8 ratio and fine is 1/4 ratio, which is far too high for the jpeg destructive format.That is why I am saying that if they could implement a 1/2 Superfine mode, which again should be very easy since just one line to change in firmware if they choose to 'update' the Fine mode, we will save a lot more of details.Phil. Fastmikefree wrote:Just to be clear, my intent is not to put the P900 down!As I said I do love it! But as described in some reviews, I believe the quality of P900' photos can easily be improvedd by changing the JPEG compression ratio.Its more,the problem with NR smearing.even with NR set to.As indicated in Nikon manual, Normal more is 1/8 ratio and fine is 1/4 ratio, which is far too high for the jpeg destructive format.That is why I am saying that if they could implement a 1/2 Superfine mode, which again should be very easy since just one line to change in firmware if they choose to 'update' the Fine mode, we will save a lot more of details.Not if the in camera processing is using NR.
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Even with superfine, detail will be smeared, due to the camera attempts to remove noise.ANAYV. 'However, Nikon compression is far too high!' I have generally had the same opinion. But is is always good to test things out in real life. So I did a number of comparison shots this afternoon. Nikon P900 versus Sony HX300First the test shot.
Then the crops. Nikon first because N comes before S (Sony)Both cameras set to Noise Reduction Low.The Nikon was set on the default sharpness/contrast/saturation settings.
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I tried adjusting those through the 5 different 'quick adjust' values but did not see much difference on these shots.The Sony was set to sharpness low, contrast low. Adjusting those settings had a much larger affect on the images than the Nikon equivalents did.The complete views look fine. The difference comes when you zoom in. So the next two shots show crops.On the Nikon, at the pixel level, one can see regions of continuous pixels that are all at the same color and brightness.
The cable coming off the electrical pole does not show. Details are smeared. Sometimes this is called watercolor effect.On the Sony, there is much less smearing.
You can see detail within each little shrub. And you can see the horizontal line of an electrical cable from the pole.My experience just looking at the scene with my naked eye is that I can see there is detail in the shrubs. And I can see the electrical wire too. So it is disturbing to both things lost in the Nikon photos.I will speculate that the processing chip in the Nikon is not powerful enough to implement the better algorithms that are available now for noise reduction and JPEG processing. I think Nikon is just a bit behind the times in electronics.
(The reason the DL line was cancelled was lack of electronic processing power.) On DSLRs like my D7100, Nikon JPEG processing is extremely good. Better than my Sony A77II. So obviously Nikon knows how to put great JPEGs out.Nikon P900Sony HX300Nikon P900. I appreciate your attempt!
Forgive me for offering some comments!. One can't overlook the 25% difference in pixel count. The focal length of the Sony is approx. 30% longer than the P900 (creating an obvious difference in framing). The picture control setting on the P900 image is absolutely horrid.The disparities are too great to give the comparison much weight but I get the point and appreciate the attempt.If you want to test the sensor, you have to flip the focal length disparity to favor the P900 as it is short on pixels. To even the score, make the P900 focal length = sq root of 1.25 (the pixel count difference) = a 1.12x FL factor. Also, please use the neutral picture control on the Nikon with sharpening turned down (and contrast perhaps, too.
That image was seriously ug!).About Augustin's comment re: Imaging Resource's tests, a weakness of any such tests - just like this one really - is they're taken at a specific focal length which may or may not fall at a strong point of a wide-range (50x or 83x) zoom. It is impossible for us to tell what focal length is each lens's strong point. A fairer test - and I'm not asking for this but it would be fairer - would be to do a test at a number of equivalent focal lengths throughout their respective ranges.Additionally, if you want to test reach which is where these cameras see a fair amount of use - again, using a decent picture control in the Nikon, please - since you can't offset pixel count or focal length differences, you just have to let 'em rip! Best not to choose too distant a subject as atmospheric conditions can play too great a role.As some concession to the OP, going back to the notion of D800 JPEG file sizes, there is a huge discrepancy of full rez jpeg output from the D800. I have full rez native D800 JPEGs - not converted from NEFs - that range from anywhere from about 10MB to around 30MB for more detailed low-ISO content but most are around 15MBs or so. P900 JPEGs are generally but not always proportionally smaller: in the 5-8MB range the way I shoot (which is exclusively low ISO) but never higher. Only in best-case scenarios does it seem the D800 saves more info per MP.Are differences due to the compression method?
Are any compression differences due to the EXPEED version? (the P900 uses! And the D800 Expeed 3) Is it because this is how Nikon views the use of - or output from - these small sensor cameras that they treat files this way? Again, the P900 files vary much less the D800 files without as much upside so maybe!That said, my Canon Powershot SX50 offered RAW and I rarely if ever saw an upside to that format's use from that camera. I have Sony P&S cams and I hate their smearing.
If Sony finally did something right with the HX300, good for them! I didn't see those benefits conveyed in any tests when considering the P900 vs any other bridge camera including the Sony.WRT to pixel count and - ultimately - resolution, I make this point in other forums far more than I'd like: If you use the Windows 'standard' of 96 dpi monitor resolution, even a P900 file viewed at 100% is akin to a whopping 36'x48' wall print! How big is anyone really going to view these things??? (I have made big prints with files inferior to those produced by the P900 that get oohs and ahhs from people, some of whom consider themselves photographers. And, no, I don't pay them for the accolades! My point is these files serve a purpose.)Finally - and in a somewhat related vein - there is much more to imagery than just resolution and pixel count.
With appropriate picture control settings, I have found the P900 sensor very forgiving in contrasty lighting conditions. I have also found the ability to crop in-camera very helpful to how I envision a scene. For jpegs coming from a 1/2.3' sensor, I find the tones and color very acceptable.
For me, it's not always about pixel-level resolving capability. That said, is it the only camera I have? Admittedly, it is not. If it were, it's still not a bad one by any stretch of the imagination: I get more smiles-per-shot on my face from this camera than I do with any other.
(and it wasn't my first bridge camera either. Or second!)Although I wouldn't mind seeing a more effective comparison - but I appreciate that's a lot to ask - it really wouldn't change how I feel about this camera. YMMV Regards.When every pixel counts.
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What is a NEF file?NEF files are the RAW file formats from digital photos taken by Nikon cameras. NEF files retain everything captured by the camera before any processing is undergone, including the metadata like the camera and lens model. How to open NEF files?You can open NEF files without any additional software if your PC has the right codec on your computer. NEF files can also be opened with the most popular photo and graphics tools. Mobile devices can open NEF files as well.
Google Snapseed is an app that supports this format. Why choose EaseUS Data Recovery Wizard?'
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